Sponsoring - Beckhoff data source

In English
1

Hi ScadaBR Team and community

My company build industrial refrigeration installation in Switzerland and Europe, especially for fruit conservation but also for commercial and industrial cooling. We use to build installation with several huge fridge where we manage all automation, regulation and supervision.

We are looking for a web/remote based supervision system and then we currently evaluate several software. The rule is that commercials SCADA systems are overpriced and licences fees have to be paid each time. Thus workflow of commercials products are more efficients (mainly because PLC we use are natively supported) and then we will be much more efficient during day to day work than with SCADABR.

Nevertheless, having sustainable development in mind, we would prefer helping a talented programmer doing specifics open source development we need, instead of paying for overpriced licences. So, first we need to be sure that this solution is economicaly viable.

Specifically we need those custom functionalities :

1) ___________ ADS Data source

We are using Beckoff PLC and need to communicate. Beckhoff use his own communication protocol (ADS) and a Java DLL is available for custom application development ( -> http://infosys.beckhoff.com/english.php?content=../content/1033/tcsample_java/html/tcsample_java_intro.htm&id=12006) 

2) ___________ Automatic data point importation

Bechoff use CoDeSys programming tools. Notice that that tool is also used by several PLC manufacturer (Wago, Moeller, Bosch). During compilation, a file containing all data point is created (.tpy file). We need to automatically import/update data point from this file.

The file is XML based. We need to be able to parse this XML file and automatically create/update data point and rebuild data structure hierarchy directly into the scada. This file is not so simple, but can be managed with XML-DOM

3) ___________ Touch screen support

This functionality is not urgent as we can live without. On front of our electrical cabinet, we have a touch screen HMI for local monitoring. So we will automatically start web browser in full screen mode. The goal would be to make ScadaBR more friendly for touch screen devices. Especially with an onscreen keyboard and with touch friendely navigation.

I notice that ScadaBR use Dojo tool kit for rendering. This is good because Dojo toolkit have an extension for touch devices. I imagine ScadaBR could be adapted for Touch Devices.

4) ___________ Small automation

For small automation project and for home automation, we may need to be able run ScadaBR on low resource hardware. So we may test ScadaBR with the smallest application server : TWJS (http://tjws.sourceforge.net/). Note that TWJS can also run on android, Windows CE and Blackberry.

 

Next:

Dose somebody can add on or more functionality listed above within ScadaBR for us ?

I yes would you evaluate the price value for the realisation of [1-ADS Data source] and [2-Automatic data point importation] and then give us a quotation and realisation delay.

For any questions you can post on this forum or contact us directly or by email. Instead of bad English we also speak French and little German.

Thanks and Best regards

Cyril

 

2

Hello Mr Cyril,

I´ve sent you an email recently about this subject. 

Thanks for the input.

3

Olà

I did not receive you email? I only received this notification on 6th September :

Update for Tópico do fórum: Sponsoring - Beckhoff data source
Leia mais http://www.scadabr.org.br/?q=node/452
 

But unfortunately scadabr.org return me an error message. As a result scadabr.org web site was down few days. Maybe the email was not sent for this reason.

Notice there is also no problem for us if we communicate directly trough the forum as we do not have secrets. Beside, it should be positive to show publicly an example about what we can do with open source business model ? This may also help to develop new opportunities.

Best regards

Cyril

 

4

Dear mr. Cyrill,

Thanks for your contact. We are sorry that we had communication problems. We are constantly improving the forum and our mailing notification tools. As a member of the "core" ScadaBR team, I can openly discuss the issues you proposed here in the forum, there is no problem.

MCA Sistemas (the company we run, which supports ScadaBR development) currently does both forms of software development: we work in our own roadmap, providing free components to the community version; and we do paid development, in which companies can Sponsor a specific feature.

We also provide fully customized SCADA development, and offer Engineering consultancy for New Product Development, in longer-term projects.

Paid development is usually subject to intellectual property analysis:

1) public-domain technologies (like open integration standards) and features that will benefit a large user base (like popular protocols), are preferably licensed under GPL or LGPL to our wide audience (anyone who downloads the software); Sponsors might pledge additional benefits, like tech support/help-desk, or advertising in our site. These additional benefits are offered by our group as an stimulus to open-source sponsored development, specifically to avoid tough questions like "why would I pay for something that everyone else will get for free?"..

2) detailed customizations (or sensitive intellectual property), for example external tools for advanced visualization, proprietary data integration, or mathematical analysis, could be provided under different licences, when asked by a customer. I think this is not the case for Beckhoff ADS.

Given that there is some documentation available in our wiki, and that some protocols were already written by external developers, any talented developer could in fact develop those protocols. We really hope that our forum works as a "meeting point" for companies like your company, software houses like us, and free-lance developers around the world.

We have not yet studied the Java files you mentioned, but as a general guideline, Java experienced developers usually write their first protocols in 3 weeks to 1 month, when given proper documentation and ready-to-go Java libraries, requiring small degrees of code refactoring and adaptations. That includes implementation of data acquisition and commands routines in ScadaBR, basic user interface (datasource/datapoint configuration pages), error handling and very basic tests. Complete protocol developments (with extended testing, without proper libraries, or with little documentation) can range anywhere from 2 to 6 months, including automatic detection of devices and complex datapoint templates. If you multiply that effort by standard outsourcing or "free-lance" market rates, you can get a first  "cheap cost estimate", then add taxes, maintanance and professional support as needed.

We at ScadaBR are very interested in having a maximum of protocols possible, and will readily study the Java links and documentation you provided to us.

If possible, could you also send us an example of .tpy file, with a short description of the points?

After this initial study, which will take a few days, we will issue a commercial offer for your company to Sponsor that development. For evaluation of time delays, we will provide you with one option for a quick "first version" development, and one option for a long-term, professional services relationship, including issues like the Touch-screen improvements, and Embedded (appliance) ScadaBR in smaller application containers.

Once again we thank you for contacting us, and for your interest in ScadaBR.

We´ll keep in touch.

Best regards,

Victor

 

 

5

Hi, Victor

First thank you for you reply. I am sorry because I did not reply faster. I had have a hard week with to much job to do. I hope it will be goses bettre in the future.

About open source and public domain :

I speak with my boss about this topic. He sugest that it may be interesting to find others companies with same needs (almost at the same time) and share cost of devellopment. But in fact I told him that it may be difficult to find that. As a result we are a small (but growing) companie with limited ressource, in one hand it is difficult to imagine that we will pay for something where companies with much more ressource will use fore free. But in the other hand we will have tools wich may allow us to be very competitive and felxible in our buisness. 

About ADS communication protocol:

Ads library is not open source and not free. So users will have to install it fro Beckhoff officil website. I think this library will not work with linux.

Appart there is free ADS related ressources on Sourceforge :

I do not know if this may be interesting.

TPY file :

As requested I send you some links for downloading TPY files :

<RoutingInfo> : Ads communication paramters. 
<DataTypes> : Corrspond to PLC Function bloc local variables. May be parsed with recursivity : A datatype can include other datatype defined in internaly or in external library.
<Symbols> : Programm variables liste : of type simple (bool, real, int) or complex (DataTypes) = Starting point for parsing.

 

Next :

I collegue from climat gestion will be travelling in Brazil next 3 weeks. He may be in Florianopolis the 12th octobre. He is also concerned with PLC programming. It Would be interesting if he can visit you ?

Best regards

Cyril

6

 

Hello Cyril,

Thanks for the references. This could give us a head start at implementing these functionalities in ScadaBR Project. Also, thanks for the tpy examples. ScadaBR has already a similar importation routine through JSON, and should be easier from starting from ground-up.

These can be incorporated in future versions of ScadaBR, but as we work under projects schedule, we aim other goals. For effort directioning to this matter, we can send a sponsoring proposal, with specific budget, timeline and development hours.

Thanks again for the feedback, and glad to know that your company aligns with open projects.